In this Painty Mama episode, Keita has a beautiful chat with Emily Harvey. Sharing everything from finding your illustration style, juggling motherhood with working as an illustrator and how grief impacts your art business. Emily is an inspiring and down to earth illustrator, youtuber and content creator and she reminds us in this episode why you don’t have to give up on your dreams when you become a Mum. It was an absolute pleasure to talk so openly with her and I hope you enjoy this encouraging conversation!

In This Episode Keita + Emily Discuss:

·      Juggling motherhood with growing an illustration business

·      Things that help increase productivity as an art making mom

·      How to find your art style

·     How grief can affect all aspects of life, including your creative output + art business.

Mentioned in this Episode:

How to set up your ideal art making space workbook - free download CLICK HERE.

Where you can find Emily Harvey:

Website + Shop: https://www.eharveyart.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/eharveyart/

Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/EmilyHarveyArt

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgL8apX08WJIIYOPtcI5KDw

DM Keita + Emily on instagram, @artbykeita and @eharveyart we’d both love to connect with you!

Don’t forget to share this episode and leave a review and share with a friend if you found this episode helpful - that way we can reach more painty mamas who would benefit from what we talk about here on the podcast!

Keita  00:05

Hello and welcome to the painty mama podcast. We're taught that artists are poor. Throw kids in the mix and it seems impossible to thrive. While balancing motherhood creative projects and building a business along with everything else is hard. I believe the universe gave you your unique talents and children so you could live a full, inspiring, creative, beautiful life together. Join me for conversations about creativity, motherhood, business, and finding calm in the chaos. I'm Keita Thomas, and this is the painty mama podcast.

Keita  00:40

Hi, lovely. I have such a treat for you today! I'm so excited to share this episode with you. I had a brilliant chat with Emily Harvey. If you don't know who Emily is, she's an illustrator, a mom, a content creator. She has a YouTube channel, which I've personally followed- almost since she started it. She only had a few episodes up, I think. But she's so personable, and so open and lovely and just really easy to talk to. We just had a really nice chat, and she has a Patreon. So I'm a Patreon of hers. And I'm just a fan. I'm a fan of Emily. And I think she does such an inspiring job. And I was so over the moon when she said yes to coming on the podcast as I just knew she'd have some real pearls, pearls of wisdom about being an art making Mum, which I'm so excited for you to hear. Because she really did. And I really loved having this conversation with Emily. And by the end of it, I think my natural accent was fully slipped back into my Yorkshire roots. But oh, hopefully that's not annoying. And I will leave links for you to check out Emily's work in this episode in the Episode Notes. And if you fancy taking a peek at her art, just while you're listening, you can pop on over to Instagram and look up @eharveyart so you can see her artwork there. Without further ado, here's my conversation with Emily Harvey.

Keita  02:14

I guess I just want to start off as well before I kind of go into it by saying thank you for being on the internet and sharing everything that you do. Because you really are inspiring a ton of people. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to ask you on to the podcast because I'm really, I really am passionate about helping moms feel empowered to either make art as a hobby or an outlet, like a creative and emotional space. But also, you know, leading that into a business as well. And it's a very unique combination of things. Because it's a lot to... I'm not gonna say balance, because I don't think that you can balance it, but it's a lot.

Emily  02:57

Yeah, juggles the word.

Keita  03:03

I talk about the way that I do it. But it's interesting when you talk to other people, because everybody's got their own way of doing it. And I just feel like the more mums that we hear from they're doing it in their own way, then people can pick out what's relevant and what fits with their life. And hopefully that helps them. So that's kind of my goal

Emily  03:23

Amazing. Well, you know, thank you for having me. Thank you very much. Yeah, that's my that's literally why I started this because there were no other moms that I was watching trying to do it. And I was watching a lot of other artists try and doing a great job. And my thought was, "I'm not going to be interested to watch because I'm a mom trying to do it. And that's not interesting". And then I thought, "No, that is interesting". That is interesting, because there's not, I'm not watching many moms try and do it. And maybe it's because they're too scared to try out or they don't want to talk about it. Or maybe you come across. I don't know that you can't do it. Because you have got children. And I thought you know what, I'm going to document it. There's no one else is doing. I'm going to document it. And it seems to be more moms are coming out now and just you know, giving it a try. So yeah, my goal is to try and get as many moms to see that they can do it. That's, that's my goal, anyway.

Keita  04:17

Yeah, totally. I feel like we're on the same page with that completely. So in the intro, I'll be going back and recording to give an explanation of like, who you are what you do, but I'll just start with asking you in your own words like how would you describe what you do?

Emily  04:37

I would say that I am an illustrator. I'm an illustrator with a, and a content creator and becoming more and more comfortable saying that. I felt a bit like, "Oh, I didn't know if I'm a content creator" But I am. I make content and get paid to do it. So I am I'm a content creator. And I run a small ecommerce business that is growing. Yeah, do a bit of everything. Is there a label for it? I don't think there is a label. I'm just an illustrator that has a hand in everything. It's a lot of hats to wear pretty much. Yeah.

Keita  05:16

Well it's really inspiring to watch you do everything. And when did you first I guess, two questions in one. But when did you first realize that you wanted to go into illustration? Is that something that you always wanted to do? Since you were really young? Because I know you went into animation, didn't you?

Emily  05:33

Yeah, it was animation, I always wanted to work in animation. I wanted to work at Disney. And I love to draw, I remember drawing from an early age. But I just wanted to make Disney characters. All I want to do when a new Disney DVD came out, I would buy it and watch the special features because I just wanted to know how they made the characters move, how they designed the claws and did all these things. So that's that was the goal. So I wouldn't say I've always wanted to be an illustrator. I just knew I wanted to create characters. And I naturally went down the animation route. Because I did that college, I did that university. But then I just struggled to get a job in animation because it wasn't a good animator. I loved it, I understood animation. I understood how you made characters move, I just couldn't do it very well. And I struggled to get a job. And, and then after uni, I thought, I need to figure something out. So I bought myself like a Wacom tablet from argos, for like 50 pounds. And I just started to draw, I wasn't great, but I was just trying to figure it out. And, and I, I just started drawing every day. And I was still sending applications out to Animation Studios still getting rejected. And then there was just one studio that said, "Look, you've applied 100 times here now. you're not good enough to be an animator here. You're not really good enough to do that side of it. But come in and do an internship, an unpaid internship". And I went and that was like July my thought it was my thought was that it might be like a six-week internship, I'd be in the studio, it was like my dream. And within the first couple of days, they had this big drawing tablet in the corner. And they said, "Why don't you go and sit at their desk". And I can't really remember, but they gave me some characters to draw. And I just remember not doing anything workwise they were just sort of giving me tasks to do. And before I knew it, I was the concept artist at that studio. And, and I became like an art director at that studio within a year.

Keita  07:44

Wow, I  didn't know that you became an art director, I've never had to talk about that before, that's amazing.

Emily  07:48

Yeah, I mean, it was a very small studio. So. And it was a small team. But I did, I was leading on big projects. We worked on a Pixar project, and I got to art direct on it. So in my way, I kind of have worked for the Disney project. And, and I just became the concept artist, I didn't do any animation, I worked with the animation team, but I became the person that designed the characters. And I just had to get good fast, basically. And I learned on the job. And so from getting my first drawing tablet to becoming like the lead artist at the studio was about 18 months. Very fast. And then from there, I've just been concept artist at different studios, character designers and things like that. So illustration was a happy accident, I think, really, but I was it wasn't a choice. I was kind of just pushed in that direction and turned out to love it, So.

Keita  08:42

yeah, it sounds like you had a bit of like untapped talent that even you didn't really know that you had. And, isn't it amazing that somebody can just give you a tiny opportunity like that, that doesn't even seem like an opportunity at a time when you can just build it.

Emily  08:56

I know that so is crazy.

Keita  09:00

Like, I feel like Emily, just because I'm familiar with your work and like how you do things. I feel like you've got such a talent for turning lemons into lemonade. Like, you know, I'm gonna go a bit deeper and it's okay, if you don't want to talk about it going, it's fine. I know that you've been through a lot this past year and you've suffered a lot of loss and that first loss like it's devastating to your family to you. I can't even imagine how you how you continued to show up in that time and like didn't just fully retreat, because I can only speak from my own experience. But like if anything like that happens to me anything that's like fully, you know, grief stricken. I just go into a complete, like isolation bubble and don't want to talk to anyone. So I really, really admire that about you That you show up regardless, and you talk to people, and that's what helps people, I think. And it's inspiring. And I mean, I'm looking at your sign, as you can see. "Dare to Dream Big" And that kind of came out of that experience.

Emily  10:17

Yeah. Learning from her passing. Yeah. It's funny. Like, the reason that sign is on my wall is because she died. And it's so yeah, my sister in law passed away last year. And, and it was completely unexpected. You know, she was two years older than me. And it does, and before that, I'd only ever had one loss in my life. So I never really, I've never really had to deal with grief much. And it was really hard last year to, like you say, show up. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know whether to, you know, I could have stepped away very easily could have easily done that and said, "Look, I can't put myself out here online anymore". But I remember last year, actually, that was easier. I had another loss two weeks ago, that has been harder this time. And because I just remember thinking, (well I have been feeling it for the past few weeks) Like what's the point? You know, like, what's the point of me coming in here and drawing a mermaid? If people you love, are gonna die. Like, why am I not spending time with those people? But they're the thoughts that I had. And I remember having them last year just thinking, "why am I spending time on Instagram? When I could be with family, who need me". And but I realized that I need this, all of this stuff. I need it. It's my way of coping. Because if I'm not in here, drawing pretty pictures of mermaids. I'm thinking of the person that I lost. So it's like, it's my way of probably delaying grief a bit longer. Like if I'm in here creating I'm just like, you know, plugging it but last year, yeah, I, I can't remember, like the full quote that I said, where that kind of, you know, came from- Well, it's not that one. So there's, "Dare to Dream Big" big. And then there's "magical things can happen", and magical things can happen is the one where that came from, because I was just saying, like, life is too short. Life is way too short. So you know, if you've got this idea, this dream, this thing you want to do, just go for it. Because magical things can happen. You dare to dream big. But yeah, it has it's been really crap. It's been really crap. But putting myself out there talking to people is helping me. So and it seems to be helping other people. The amount of people that have come forward and said, "Oh, my God, I've had the same feeling the same thing is happening. I can't talk about it, but hearing you talk about it through me" kind of thing. So that's what keeps me going doing it.

Keita  13:00

I definitely find, I'm like nodding along in agreement with what you're saying. I had not drawn really and I'd kind of not given up, just chosen like a different sort of a path with work and stuff because my (I won't go too far into it). But my backgrounds in like theatrical painting and film painting for like sets. And, and I had taken a different career choice, because it's really difficult to get paid work in theatre anywhere in the world, but Vancouver's, yeah, a difficult spot. And so I decided to do something completely different. And then I went through something I'll share because you've shared it being so open, I went through a child loss experience. And it was, needless to say, if anybody's ever experienced that before who's listening or even if you can imagine it, it's absolutely devastating. But the place that I went to, is, I wanted it to be busy. I had to process my feelings at the same time. And I find that just drawing stuff. And even if it turns out rubbish, which most of it was, just the process of doing something creative, or, you know, and that's when that's kind of where my first paintings came from. That I mean, (not my very first paintings), but like how my business kind of started even though I didn't start it as a business. I started it for as a healing, like something that I felt like compelled to do to help myself to get through that time. Yeah, I just wanted to comment on it because I do find...

14:35

Did you have the same thing where you did feel a bit like, "but what's the point of doing anyway?" You know, like, Yeah, do you go through that as well?

Keita  14:43

Yeah. Did Yeah. Because I just felt like well, I felt like that about kind of everything. I mean, my other child. I just had one child at the time already. So my oldest, Aria, she was a year or two. A year and a half at that time when that happened. And she was the only thing that got me out of bed on a morning, every single thing other than looking after her felt completely void of meaning. And just like lackluster. Yeah, totally like, "what's the point? What's the point? What's the point in cleaning the bathroom? What's the point in doing the laundry? What's the point of doing anything?" But I think that it was a road back to myself that I just naturally gravitated towards it was like, something inside me knew that that's what I needed to do to re-find meaning because there's something about when you're just, you know, if you're illustrating something or you're drawing, it's like, your hands are busy, but your mind is free. So it's like it kind of processes things without you having to sit and think and dig into the trenches of all your works itself out while you've got your hands on the page or the tablet or whatever it is.

Emily  16:03

Yeah, it definitely, definitely does. I, I it's definitely helping me is because I did I had a week off. I remember last year, having a couple of weeks off. And it's it is good to have time to be with family and things. But I'm not somebody who can just sit and think and listen to songs and like that's what my partner does. And he that's his way of coping through it. For me, it's like, "right, I need to go back to work. I need to be back in here". And it's just everyone you know, grieves differently. And I'm still trying to figure out I'm still waiting for the moment where it's like, really hits me what has happened this past year. Umm, but right now staying busy is, like you say, it's, it's the thing to do for me. Yeah.

Keita  16:51

I feel like, I'm gonna ask you some, more trivial questions after we've just got straight into the deep stuff! - I kinda like just went off on a natural tangent. We've touched on, like, how grief influences things in life. How has been involved? Like, when you first became a mom, I don't know if I'm going to read this very well. So I'm trying my best. When you first became a mom, how did your relationship to like your creativity or your art process? Or, like, just the way that you did things? How did that shift? Did you did it change? Or?

Emily  17:46

I suppose it did, really, because believe it or not, before Luke came along, I didn't really draw as a hobby. I know that sounds really weird. But I, I would draw all day long at work. Because up until that point, I was in studios, nine till six o'clock, designing characters creating things. I had no desire at the end of the day to come home and drawing a sketchbook. I mean, I just had no desire, I had a drawing tablet - didn't use it.  So I just to me, drawing was what was work. And then didn't do it as a hobby. And then when I had Luca, and I didn't have a job anymore. And it became everything that I had to draw kind of was this hobby, all of a sudden, because I wasn't being paid to do any work. You know what I mean? So I started to draw again for me, and I remember it being maybe about the start of April, being like, I need to draw. I don't know what I'm going to draw, but I need to draw, and I never had that feeling before. Because I was always just fed up with drawing after a long day at work, to be honest, you know,

Keita  19:03

They say that about chefs don't they. Where like chefs come home from work and the last thing they want to do is cook for their family.

Emily  19:09

Exactly, they don't want to cook and that's the thing. And I think people think that you know, to be a good artist, you have a sketchbook in your bag at all times. And you always want to draw wherever you go, well I, I don't have sketchbooks, I don't own sketchbook, I don't do anything like that. And, and for many years, I didn't draw for myself. And so when I started to feel like that, after having him and thinking, "you know, I've got these ideas and I want to get them out". I remember turning on my tablet again on my computer and like sort of dusting them off. And that starting and I've never had that before just coming up with characters for myself and not having it for a brief for a client or anything like that. And that's kind of where this business started. And I was just drawing characters, putting them on Instagram and growing a little following. So I suppose my process has changed because I am drawing very differently to what I did before having him I would never done anything like this before I had Luca. Because I'd always just worked for other people.

Keita  20:08

Yeah. Do you think it helps you to develop your own like visual voice, kind of? - Because you were just doing it for yourself rather than doing it for a brief?

Emily  20:17

It was hard to be honest. Because I mean, I get asked a lot, how did I find my style? Well my style is a mixture of 100 different client projects mixed together. Because you do you have to change to different people. And so then for the first few drawings was a bit like, because I worked. So before, when I was pregnant, I worked on a show for Nickelodeon. And then I learned a lot in those nine months on that show on how to design characters. And the first few characters I drew, were could have been from that show. And I thought, well, I can't do that, you know, I can't like, you know, I have to come up with my own style. So it has taken time. But I feel like now I've got to the point where I draw a character, and it looks like one of my characters for a long time, it kind of looked a bit like every drawing was different. But that was just me being really confused about like, you know, what I've learned so far. So yeah, it's taken a while, but I feel like now I've got to the point where if you tell me a character, I can draw it and it will look like one of my characters.

Keita  21:21

Yeah. And I think as well, though, when I think like as an out looker, or looking at somebody who is making creative work, it's like, "that's their style. That's it, like, full stop, they're always gonna draw the exact same way". But we're still people at the same time who are like, I mean, it hones down, but then you still have like, growth to go through as well. So it's gonna, quickly change, and then subtly change, I think, like, over time,

Emily  21:53

Yeah. And I really, if anyone's listening to this, and they're thinking, "Oh, I'm not getting better". Put together your drawings over the years. I did it recently on Instagram, I showed six images from over the past like eight years. And I think it surprised people how much you can change even in one year. Like, I'm like currently doing my mermaid project. Right now. I'm looking at the mermaids I did last year. And I'm like, "wow, I would never have done it like that now". And it's just, you don't think you've changed. But we are constantly like tweaking things every drawing I do. I am coming up with something slightly new or changing the way I do something. So yeah, yeah, never be a full stop where I'm like, right, "this is my style", that will never happen, it will just constantly adapt and change.

Keita  22:38

Yeah, I think that's true for everyone, like, you just like learn, like you might do, like, just the shading on one might be a little bit different. And then you're like, "ooh, I like that, and I'm gonna take that forward". And it's just these tiny little tweaks that ended up like, evolving and growing. So it's not like a stationary thing. And I think that that, I'm glad we're talking about this, because I feel that that's where a lot of people get stuck, because they're like, "I need to find my style". And like thinking about your style as like this, this thing that you have to find and grab on to and like that will be you for life. But it's just doesn't really work that way.

Emily  23:19

And, you know, I think the problem, I'm finding, there's a lot of messages I get are from young people that are just starting out. And they're obviously frustrated that they're not they haven't found this "style" yet. And they don't know how to get to that point. And I try and tell them look, I am eight years into this - since I got my first tablet, and I started drawing characters, that's eight years of me doing really rubbish drawings at times, like figuring it out. So you can't be you can't have bought a tablet and eight weeks later saying, "well, I've not got a style yet". It takes time. And I think some people want it now. And they're not... They're getting mad at themselves, because they're in these early steps. That's why I try and show a lot of my early drawings as much as possible just to say, look, this was me when I started. I'm not saying like someone will look at those drawings and think they are amazing. At the time, I thought they were really good too. But looking back now, you know, you do get better. So I try and remind people that, yes, you've got to put a lot of hard work in and you've got to, you know, draw a lot. And that time as well. It's not gonna happen overnight. It can take like for me, I'm eight years in. I'm hoping in the next another 10 years. I'm still sat here going and "still not found my style yet. I'm still trying to get better". I think that's the thing I've noticed in a lot is people just want their style. Now. They want to find it now. They want it to be amazing. And they're a bit scared of the journey and the bad drawings. They've got to get out to get to it.

Keita  25:00

Yeah, like it's a journey, not a destination. Exactly.

Emily  25:03

Yeah. And I just think just, the more you draw, the more of those what you think are "bad" drawings, they're not bad drawings. You're just trying to figure out your way. And yeah, I just like to share mine as much as possible, just to show that everyone has the early drawing, not the bad drawings, the early drawings in them. So.

Keita  25:21

Yeah. You know, when, when Luca was when Luke was small, you were doing commissions still then right? And that started to... I remember, cuz I've been following you for a long time Emily! I've been a lurker! For the same reason, because I was like, art making mum. Brilliant. And I just wonder how you navigated, you know, when you were doing commissions, and then that started to grow? Yeah, I found as I started to get busier, it was like this kind of crunchy point in-between it being like, "Okay, I have enough time to kind of do this, while I'm mothering". And then having to, like having too much on my plate, and then having to kind of redesign my life a little bit and work things around. I mean, I've talked about some things that have helped me like, that seem completely unrelated. But it actually has made a massive difference, decluttering the house, setting up like an area, a designated area to work, even if in the beginning, that was just like a basket on the side of my table, I would pull out rather than like, randomly going to find my bits and bobs everywhere all over the house. So that could be a bit more productive. Do you have any like, I guess any tips or anything that you found helped you whether that's life, whether that's just business related, or hiring help at home or in your work like that might help somebody else to maybe think about?

Emily  27:01

So the desk thing is really important. I think I say this a lot. So although I have this space, now, when I first started, I had a small, little bedroom, and just having that space where I could shut the door, and that'd be my space, really helps. And yes, trying to keep on top of that. And so it's not crazy messy and things like that. I think it's also important because, you know, if you are a new mom, your life's already hectic. It's hectic, it's messy. And I just Yeah, I just remember feeling like my life was a mess. The house was a mess. Like just I looked a mess. But I just remember going into that office, and it just being like a tidy desk, and just organized and just thinking like, if "even if I've only got an hour in this room today, or this week, at least I'm going to get something done". And it was just that one little bit of my life that wasn't chaotic. And so yes, even if it is just the edge of the dining room table, that is yours. Make sure it's yours. And setting time aside. So I tried in the beginning. So I was about three months, I was about Luca was about three months old when I started getting back into work again. And at first, I tried to, I worked a lot while he slept. That's the good thing about newborns, they sleep a lot. And I mean, I was filming for YouTube when he was three months old. I feel like I got more work done when he was three months old than now. I got so much done, he slept next to me. I was at a desk most of the day, getting stuff done. And then as he started to be awake more, I still tried to work as much as I was doing and punishing myself when I couldn't get stuff done. And then it got to the point where I just thought, "right, I am going to cause myself some damage here. So I need to be mom in the day". And then (I I'm so fortunate that I have grandparents to help. So, and my partner has he's not at work like nine to five, he was working like 6am till maybe 10am. He was having like four hours at home and then working in the evening). So we just literally just passed him between us. So he would come home, we'd like tag team and I'd be like, like I'm gonna go work for a couple of hours. So instead of trying to, like be a mom and work at the same time, I had to literally block time out and it was a case of right. I have two hours today. I can't think about being more right now. I'm just going to get worked on for two hours and whatever is not done in two hours and have to wait until tomorrow and just having that. Like before having Luca I would work until crazy time like crazy times in the morning. And I could not do that with Luca. So I had to just be really strict and just say "look, if I didn't get it done, it would have to wait until the next day". So yeah, being sort of rigid with my time really helped. What else did I do? I just learned to say no, as well. And being okay saying No. So yeah, I did do commissions. While I was pregnant, I did a lot of commissions, because I knew I was gonna lose my job, when I was eight and a half months pregnant, and I didn't have anything else, I'm not gonna get another job for a new baby. So my thought was, when I was pregnant was "I am going to build a business that makes portraits", I actually came up with the logo, I bought the domain. And I was going to have this business where I made portraits. And I was starting to build a library of characters in Photoshop. So when people would email, I could just build characters fast, like I was building this business while I was pregnant. And then I had Luca, and I realized that I really didn't enjoy making them. And it was one of those things where I was like, "if I'm going to spend two and a half hours, three hours, every night away from my baby, working on something, I'm not going to work on something that makes me miserable". So I, although I had, so I had to do portraits, I couldn't just stop doing them. Because I built it up to a point where I was getting, you know, four or five requests a week, it was it was bringing in some money. But that's where the idea of, "I need to build something that brings me an income, so I can stop doing these portraits". So that's where I got to eventually.

Keita  28:03

That's, yeah, there's something... like there's a nugget in there - I just feel like, often in society, we see there's a perception of like, you can't do it, because you're a mom, like it's a hindrance, because you've got all these other things to do. But actually, there is another perspective to take on it, which you kind of expressed a little bit in there. And I'll just kind of elaborate on what I sort of heard in that. That like, being a mom is actually like a superpower because it causes you to really hone in on the things that are going to work for you. By instead of you could have spent 40 hours a week if you know, if you decided not to go to a studio and Luca, hypothetically didn't exist, you could have been spending that much time. And you'd still be doing portraits, which you don't really like but you felt kind of like you had to but like with the added, it's kind of like working well under pressure almost. And I also... it kind of condenses your ideas and like what you want in life and gives you what you need. And like you said, you learn to say no. And there's something in that I think I hope you follow me! But yeah, I think that it just helps you to condense it and distill it down, like what you love to do, what your soul needs to do, what you need for your business, how you need that to work, and it kind of does something to your brain where it's like, I don't have eight hours a day. I've got two and I'm going to accomplish as much as I can in two hours.

Keita  33:20

Hey, lovely. If you're gelling with this part of the conversation, I just wanted to let you know that I have a super helpful resource for you. It's only short but it's pretty powerful. It's a workbook style guide on how to set up your ideal art making space. If you want to create more often than you do on a daily basis right now. Run to download this please I'll walk you through the process of designing and setting up a creative space that truly works for you, how you work creatively as a unique person, how to set things up so that they're quick and easy to access. No matter how large or small your space is you deserve a sanctuary to make your beautiful things in. Please let me help you with by visiting linktr.ee/artbykeita and selecting the workbook it's totally free and I just wanted to add it in here real quick because I just think it might help you. If you are struggling in that way, I would really love to support you on your artmaking journey. I'll also leave a link in the show notes for this episode  and... on with my chat with Emily...

Keita  34:34

And also I did an episode on this before but about motherhood being your superpower but it's, I find and I don't know if you are the same in those times when I'm in mom mode and I'm and there's a choice to feel frustrated and is frustrating sometimes and you're like I just want to sit and like get on with this work that I'd like really need to do but somebody is having a tantrum somebody else needs their bum wiping and you've got all the things to do. But with those like kind of mummy tasks that you are doing, that's when I come up with my best ideas. It's like I can filter things out in my brain before and I'm not even sat down. Whereas before I had kids, I would be sitting down thinking I was being productive. But really, I was spending more time on sketches that won't really go anywhere. But I kind of do it in my head now. And then as soon as I sit down, like I know exactly what I'm doing.

Emily  35:29

Yeah! It just pours out of you. Yeah, that's how I that's how I feel. That is exactly how I feel. I always worry. So like, for example, yesterday, yesterday, Friday is my workday as Luca goes to nursery, it's my day to be Emily, the artist. I love Fridays. I absolutely love them. But Luca was poorly yesterday. So yesterday was an unexpected Mum - day. And, you know, and things like that happen. So I it's almost like you can't; you can't plan to have an eight-hour workday. It would just never have happened before. Luca, I would just have come in got worked on. Yesterday, I got nothing done. So I spent the day just thinking about right, well, I need to do this. And that's a great idea. And you're right, you do it all in your head, don't you and you're like, and then you come in the next day. And there's many times I come in here and I sit down on my drawing tablet and think "I don't know how to draw. Nothing is gonna come out of it me now". But it does. It just like flows out on me. And I think I just build it all up while I'm being Mum. And then in the one-two hours that I get, thankfully, (well, some days It doesn't work like that. Some days, nothing happens. And you just, yeah, just have to get out of it). Most of the time. Most of the time I do. I come in and I'm like oh my gosh, where did that drawing come from? Before Luca that would have taken me like 10 sketches to get to that one. And it just came out in one. So yeah, I think I think it does, it happens while we're being Mum.

Keita  35:30

Yeah... I know I sound like I'm being like, cheesy and trying to find a silver lining where there isn't one. But there is! I just don't want anyone that listen to this to still feel in that place. Like, "Oh, well, I can't because I've got kids", there is nothing about having kids, that means you can't it's it pushes you to just use your brain in a different way. And it's like an adaptive thing. That's what I think anyway.

Emily  36:53

Yeah, it's my biggest, it's my biggest thing is that, because I had the thought, I remember leaving my job being eight and a half months pregnant, with nothing else lined up. And I remember just thinking, "I'm never gonna draw again. This is it. I'm going to be a mom now". And I just remember thinking, "What am I going to do with my life? Like, where? Because I can't draw anymore. So what am I going to do?" And I remember having them thoughts, and I just wish I could go back and tell her, like, "look at where she is now". Like you just, I just don't want any mom to just think that you have children, and your life stops because nobody looks at a dad and says, "What's gonna happen with your career now?" Like Nobody looked at my partner and his business that he had grown and said to him "Oh well you're not gonna be able to work now. You got kids". Nobody thought that of him. So why, why? Why was I getting the "what you're going to do for work now Emily?" And it is interesting now two years on, for people to see that me and Matt have both got businesses that are doing very well. And we're juggling a two-year-old together. But yeah, I never want any Mum to - I think that's why, I have a I have a lot of moms that watch my YouTube now. And I think its that little bit of hope for some new moms because I can literally say to them, go back to my first video when my three-month-old, and I had like nothing. I had no money in the bank. And I was just gonna give it a go and see where you can get to with it. Because Yeah, it breaks my heart to hear Mums say that they had to give up. Because you just really don't have to makes me really sad to think about. Yeah,

Keita  39:07

I think it's one of those things that you can either give up or you can keep going. And it's just a choice. And literally that is the division line. Like you either you either stop or you keep going even though you've only got a little bit of time, even though you don't feel it, feel like it and you're tired. Even though there's a mountain of laundry to do in the corner, you're still gonna sit down and sketch for half an hour anyway. And I think that that is that's the line. And that, to me, that's what it takes. I don't know, do you? What do you think? If you were starting over again, with all the doubts that you had in your mind about yourself? What would you say to you who didn't fully think that you could get here to where you are now?

Emily  39:51

You're right. I would just say "you've got to keep going". When you get to the end of the day and you're really exhausted and you're thinking, "what's the point of drawing for half an hour? If it's not going to go anywhere?" When you're in that point- Do it anyway, do it for yourself. There's many times I was sat at my desk. Just thinking like, "I just don't know what, what's the point?" I always think this, "what's the point of even trying?" But so many amazing things have come out of me just pushing that little bit harder, doing that little bit every day. And just having that goal, literally, like I said, before, the goal was to finish doing portraits, I didn't want to do that. And I just wanted a little bit of money. Like, I'm not this like money driven person. I've never thought like, I need to be earning like six figure salary. Like I've never thought like that. All I wanted was to be able to pay my bills and still see my child every day. And that they were my goals. I just wanna pay some bills, and not struggle every month, and still see my child. I didn't want to send him to a child minder every day. Because I could have done, I could have come back into a studio. I could have put him in nursery every day. And I'd probably done well with my career might have, you know, been working on some great projects, I've probably paid all my bills, I just wouldn't have seen my child. And it was just a case of, "I just need to hit those steps". And drawing a little bit every day, putting myself out there every day on Instagram, and showing up and doing all those things. You know, finally got me to that point of the day I literally turned someone down for a portrait. I could have cried that day when I said to someone "Sorry, I don't need to do this anymore". It was just the most magical thing. When I realized, "oh my god, it's it's working. What I'm doing is working". Umm but honestly, if he could have if he could have seen me when he was three months old, and I had no clue what I was doing. My first studio vlog, I bought a printer in that studio vlog. Well, I had to borrow money to buy that printer. I really wish that I said that in the vlog. I wish I'd have been honest and been like, "by the way, I don't have the money in the bank" because that was a 500-pound printer, I opened on the first studio vlog. I eventually paid that off. But it was like it was it was hard. It was, I don't think I shared just how hard that first few months’ worth of having no money and just really wanting to make it work.

Keita  42:36

It is really inspiring. Like, just watching. I think it was probably like your third studio vlog or something. I think when I came across you, I think it was on YouTube. Two years ago. Yeah. And just to see how much you've grown and how openly you share, Emily is just so, so refreshing. It's so refreshing. Everything you do looks really great. And it's also very open and free. And there's a there's a real warmth and an honesty that just shines through. And I know you were asking about like you feel a bit like "what's the point?" And I think that's the point, it's about making a difference to people by showing them what's possible, and what it's like when it feels impossible. And that's the bit that most people don't see.

Emily  43:36

Yeah, I think I love watching artists on YouTube. I love watching artists on Instagram. But I have to say there's a lot of is it rose tinted? Like it's it is made to be beautiful. And you know, there are aspects of this that are beautiful. I mean, a beautiful space. But if I'm having a bad day, things go wrong. I'm talking about it. Because what's the point? I don't understand the people that just want to share the good. I can't get my head around it. So I'm still I still have to remind myself I'm doing this but every video I put out is a diary. I have to remember that. Sometimes I forget that. I think it's I don't think it's a highlight reel but I treat it like a highlight reel. And then I have to step back and think well, I don't enjoy that vlog. I didn't share that. I've had a really good vlog with loads of exciting things happening but don't talk about the really rubbish thing that happened at the end of the week. You know? And I just think it's right. As a business as well. The reason mine has grown and done is doing well is because people see themselves here. They see themselves in me or whether it's from the first vlog of just starting or you know a bit further along. And it's because you show the good and bad is not there's nothing... I think people are scared to show the bad in case it makes them look less of a business less of an artist less of a, this perfect cookie cutter. Yeah. But to me, they're the best videos to watch, you know, the ones where things go wrong, and how has that person dealt with it when this has gone wrong? Or, you know?

art by Keita by Keita  45:17

Yeah, it's like a lot of lessons in there that you can vicariously go through and like, it's just the reality of it rather than seeing, like you say, the highlight reel of things. And but, I mean, the truth is, like, when people come into your blog, now you've got this amazing studio, that's so lovely. But then it's so great that you've got the whole like, catalog of everything in that diary. This is how this has progressed in like, real time in real person life, rather than it just, I mean, I love a good curated studio vlog with beautiful music and the people that I love to watch their vlogs are more like you, I guess. like a bit real. Like Katnipp or Frannerd where they talk about, they talk about, you know, the other things in life that go on. Because everything does affect each other. You can't separate everything, you know, like, if you're going through something in your personal life is going to affect what you're doing your business, it's going to affect everything, and not talking about it just looks like you've ghosted,

Emily  46:40

Exactly, it is, it's honestly, it's a really fine line that I'm treading. Because when I started this, I remember before I even put my first video on YouTube, I remember saying to myself, this is a business. So I'm only going to document what happens in my business. Like I had, like, people were messaging me saying, I think I was going on holiday. And somebody was like, "oh, take a camera. Like, we'd love to see where you go on holiday". And I was like, no desire to share person, my personal life, somebody asked me for like a morning routine video, I could have easily done that kind of thing. But it just didn't appeal to me, like my thing was: it happened in my studio, my back bedroom of my house, I was gonna document it. And the problem then was like, less than a year and I suffered a loss, the pandemic hit, my partner pretty much lost his business like these things happen. And at times, I really didn't want to talk about it. I really didn't want to talk about losing my sister-in-law, because it wasn't my thing to talk about, you know, that's a very sensitive thing was this, a lot going on with that, and I didn't want to share it. But the thing is, her passing affected my business massively. So I'm constantly on this edge of like, "I don't want to talk about it, but it's affecting how I am. And if I don't talk about it, I'm just gonna look miserable”...

art by Keita by Keita  48:01

It's like boundaries, and I think you've got a really good, from what I've seen, like a really good balance there. So it's not like, there is a fine line isn't there between oversharing. And like, feeling like, you're kind of, I don't know, just opening yourself up too much. You kind of want that protective layer between what you're doing in work and like the rest of your life. But at the same time, because it does bleed through, I think you do a really good job of like, you'll say what's going on touching on it, so people know what's going on, And why. And they can relate. But then all the personal details. I think you do a really good job of that. I think there's a good boundary.

Emily  48:50

Yeah. I mean, it's gotten harder, because I mean, when I did my first studio vlog, I had just over 1000 followers on Instagram, you know, it was very small. The first month I had 10 subscribers, you know, nobody was with me in the beginning and being open and talking about not knowing what I was doing having no money. All of these things seemed easier, because my thought was "nobody's watching. So why not just talk about it". It's hard now. And I still really want to try and be that girl who was honest and shared when things didn't go right. And like when you know, when I wasn't really great. But now there's 15,000 people watching when you do that. So it's like, people messaged me saying, well, I remember somebody messaging me saying like, "you've changed". And, you know, you used to be this person that would talk all the time, but things going wrong and you don't do that now like everything's rosy. And I'm like, really scared to open yourself up to stuff. It's one of the reasons Luca is not in my videos anymore, which I don't really talk about, but Luca was in every video of mine, you know, he was there, because he was there. He was my business. He was in my business. He was practically next to my desk. I choose not to share him now. Because there's more people watching, you know? Yeah, I don't mind people criticizing my work my business, how I do things. I get really scared about people making comments on family. And it's one of the reasons I don't share my losses too much like, on Patreon, I talk about it because I feel protected. It's almost like I feel like I've got this wall around us. And I'm a bit more open to share. But it is a constant battle for me, as to how much is too much to share. But if I don't share it, that's not me. I am somebody who's just open when things don't go right. So it is really hard. And as you grow, it is a constant battle of what is too much. Because if I'd have done it from day one being open about everything and sharing everything. I don't I don't know; I don't know if I could have carried that on. At this point. I think it would have really affected me. So setting those boundaries early was a good choice, I think.

Keita  51:01

Yeah, it's, it's a good, it's a good way to do it. I feel like, I try to do the same as well. Like I share pictures of my children, maybe occasionally in Instagram pictures occasionally, but not very often. And in my stories I do, but the rest of the time, not really.

Emily  51:21

Yeah. But there's no right or wrong. Like, I've got some friends that are moving more into like sharing the personal side. And that's great. Like, if that's the boundary you want to set for yourself, go for it. I'm happy for you.

Keita  51:34

Because it's finding your own, isn't it? Like what works? What works for the next person might be something completely different. They might be like, "I want to share all the personal side of things" and like maybe the work be a secondary bit, but it just is all about what feels right. And I guess that influence of like having other people's comments, the bigger the bigger you've got? I don't know. I mean, I'm just guessing here, but it must get hard to think like, do you have a second when you read those messages and go like, oh, maybe I should? And then go now Hang on a minute...

Emily  52:09

Yeah. All the time. All the time. And I am a real, I have a real problem with I just have I just have issues. But like, I, I overthink everything, right. So, you know, if somebody I don't know, like, I have a Patreon. Now. It's, it's, it's grown so big, it's so wonderful. But when people leave that Patreon, every month, it's something I'm just used to. It's people come, people go, it's fine. But you get like exit surveys when people leave, you know, people can leave like a comment of why they left. And most of the time, it's like a financial situation has changed. A lot of it recently has been like COVID's affected, so I can't stay anymore. But every now and again, you'll get one. And it will just be like, Yeah, "you've changed or I don't like it here" All these comments come in. And there's been so many times where I have almost changed my whole (in my head) changed my whole business because of one person's comment. And forgetting that there's another 400 people that seem very happy in my Patreon, you know what I mean? And I'm honestly working that out at the minute because I do. Of a room of 1000 people saying how amazing you are, I am I am the person that focuses on the one that thinks you're rubbish.

Keita  53:43

I think that's quite common though isn't it? Like we focus on the negative like we're always trying to fix or it just seems louder than the positive things.

Emily  53:52

Oh my god. Yeah. And I'm such a people pleaser. I want everyone to be happy. I want everyone to feel welcome. I want to just please everybody, and I am realizing that I can only do my best. And some people - I can help as many people as possible, but there'll be people that are not happy with me and I'm learning how to quieten those voices. I do struggle with it. I do really struggle with it. It takes one message to bring me down completely I can be on top of the world. And it can take one message from a random person that's not even following me to bring me like straight back down. And I thought as you're following grew and your business grew that that would stop, that feeling would stop. But for me, it's got worse. So it's just about Yeah, trying to focus not too much. You do need to listen to the voices that are saying like what's not working, but it's the constructive criticism and it's separating it like: what are they having a go at here? You know, are they attacking me? As a person, is it just a troll? Because those are creeping in now? Or is it somebody who genuinely isn't getting from me what they thought they were going to when could I have done something better? So I'm just constantly trying to figure out like, could I have helped that person more? And most of the time, the issue is with that person, and you know, but it is hard. I am really struggling with it.

Keita  53:55

Yeah, I don't even know what to add to that... I think as you grow, I can imagine that because you would get like, many more positive comments, I'm sure. But also, yeah, many more negative and not as many is that like, balance wise, but it would probably feel like, more. Because yeah, but then. I mean, you hear this everywhere now, but like, they're not your people. They're just not your people. I think that that is a healthy like, thing to keep in mind is like, Well, no... "Blessings and off you go".

Emily  56:09

Yeah, I am getting better at doing that I am, I am getting better to just accepting that I am not everybody's cup of tea. And trying to be everybody's cup of tea is a waste of time. It's just a waste of time, because I'm not going to be able to do it. So just stay true to yourself. And just do what you do what you enjoy. If you're putting out things you enjoy. If you're a good person, nice person, and help people. Then what can people really complain about? Me like; I just think about that every day. I just think every day. I do everything I can to help people and share what I'm doing, you know, I'm not hurting anybody doing what I'm doing. So the odd comment that is criticizing me. I just have to just breathe through it. And just carry on. umm yeah.

Keita  57:03

Well, you'll never get any negative comments for me! This has been so nice, Emily, I also just want to respect your time and I'm looking at the time.

Emily  57:16

My Kickstarter ends in three minutes, so you can celebrate. with me Yay!!

Keita  57:20

Woohoo! Oh, why don't you tell everybody what you did as a Kickstarter?

Emily  57:26

My Kickstarter: So I, I do a mermaid challenge every year, while this the second year of doing it. And I decided to do some enamel pins. So it was a complete surprise. It wasn't until a week before the launch day. I was like, umming and aahing thinking do I do this? I've not shared it with anybody. Like my whole thing is if you do a Kickstarter, promote it, like for a month. I was like, "What if I put this out and just nobody likes it" anyway, I put it out on the first of May. And it's gone really well! So yeah, I'm fully funded. I'm like nearly 500% funded so it's been - to say this month has not gone to plan at all. It's gone really well. I did plan to do more things on the Kickstarter, which, sadly I haven't been able to do. But yeah, it ends in two minutes. So yeah!

art by Keita by Keita  58:14

It's so good too guys, I don't know, depending on when you're catching this episode. It might be on Emily's website, maybe the illustration but yeah you should go and check it out. It's really cute. There's like things like the two little buddy’s mermaid and little seal. Yeah, you should go and check that out. And do you have the truth and a lie/myth?

Emily  58:48

Oh yeah, your little truth and a lie? Yeah. go on. So well, I was thinking about it. Because I was as I drove here, I was thinking about it. And we've actually talked about it pretty much in there. So my truth for me is that I love being an artist sometimes more than I love being a mom. That's very truthful, that isn't it. I some people will be scared to say that because being a mom is like the best thing in the world. And like nothing comes close to being a mom. But there are some days where I'm much; I would rather be in here all day and be at home being a mom. Because that is really hard sometimes. Being a mom, is, it can break you and I'm in the top terrible twos at the minute. And there's many nights I've just gone to bed crying. It's really hard. And I know when I come in here, I'm in control of this. And, you know, I can sit and just be in the zone like you say, you know, draw, think just do whatever I want to do be the person that has no responsibilities before having children. And I sometimes think that I'll be sat here, Luca will be at nursery and I don't even need to worry about him because he's just been looked after and he's happy. And I sit down and think, "yep, I'm loving today". And I don't know, many people would be truthful In saying that, that it's okay to have days where you want to just be a creative person, and you don't want to be mom. There's sometimes where you just don't want to do it. And I know we kind of touched on that a little bit. But it's, but I just think it's okay for people to know that you can say it, you can say out loud that sometimes being a mom is really hard. And just trying to juggle the two is just, it's really, so that's my truth.

art by Keita by Keita  58:50

Yeah, that is a tricky one. But I'm glad that you said that Emily, like I feel a bit. I'm like, you can't see these guys can't see you can see, I'm tearing up a little bit about you saying that, because I think that that is gonna really land with a lot of women we are so afraid to. To kind of admit that were more than a mom and that be okay. You know? Rather than just be like, this is my identity. Now, this is who I am. I am mom, full stop. You are a person before you became a mom, you're a person before you're a mom. And long after your children are grown up. Your life doesn't stop you don't stop being you. It's just a new way of folding into you with motherhood. And yeah, I'm so glad you said that. Thank you for saying that.

Emily  1:01:34

Oh, no, no, it's more people need to say it more people need to say that. It's alright to just have days where some days I wake up and I just I being a mom is my favorite thing to do. I think I'm just gonna pack work in because let's just travel the world let's just be a Mum and do that. There are some days where I'm like, "this was the wrong decision I made" well, I'm being very truthful now. There are some days I'm just like, "wow, this is really hard. I just want to go out and draw and not have a child on me". You know, punching me. And it's the biggest it's the biggest thing right now. In the beginning, like I said newborn, to me, that was the perfect like, mixture because he slept all day slept on me. I used to draw with him asleep on me like oh it was just heavenly. Now toddler, it's just really hard. And you telling me you want to do this podcast on a Saturday is like dreamy, cuz I'm just like, "right, I'm going to the office for a few hours. I'll see you all later". I'm going back in on Thursday. Like I'm saying here - look I've got a sofa, I'm moving in! ha-ha. Yes, people need to talk about it more. Because nobody asks a man like nobody. It bothers me that my partner, Matt, like, nobody questioned him his life, how his life was gonna change. You know, he can still do whatever he wants to do with me that's expected to stop the things that I love doing. And I said to him, I was like, "I'm not having it. And we are we have made this decision together to have a child. And we are equals in this". So yeah, that's why I'm here lots. Because I need to be here lots.

Keita  1:03:18

But that's awesome. That’s so awesome! Oh, I'm so glad that we did this episode. I just know that the people listening and for me too like, that just really. It's just sorry, I'm like losing words. Because I feel like it's really profound and really does definitely need to be said. It is okay to just lead to not feel guilty. It's okay to feel guilty for not, you know, only being one thing. But yes, it expects you to be. And also slight disclaimer, if you completely find that fulfilling in your life. Hats off to you, too. It's just about, an expectation of, you know, what people have of you is not the expectation that you need to take on for yourself, you get to choose what that is. You get to choose whether or not you're loving being a Mum on Monday, and on Tuesday. You just want to pull your hair out because the tantrums are too real. And yeah, it's riding those waves and it Yeah, sorry, I've gone on because I'm like "yeah, yeah, yeah". My natural accent's coming out a lot. I feel like I need to mention it because I live in North America, then. I don't realize that my accent has changed that much until I talk to somebody from the north and eventually it creeps back in!

Emily  1:04:48

But yeah, but just to go back to it. I think there's this idea that you just have to be this perfect mom online as well. And, and yeah, I do talk about it. A lot. I talk about the fact that my child is driving me crazy some days, and I don't want to be there. And I would rather be in here. And yeah, let's just hope more people talk like that. Because that yeah, is the truth. I know, I know, most parents will have days where they would just like a day away on their own. And you can't do it. You can't do it all the time. It's really, really hard.

Keita  1:05:24

Yeah, I'm lucky I have, I'm a single mom, but they go to their dads on the weekend. So sometimes, I just really look, sometimes I'm not saying all the time, not all the time. But sometimes I am waiting for that Saturday to come, I am absolutely waiting for it. Because it just gives me a chance to just be myself. And I think that's kind of what we need to be promoting as women supporting other women is, it's okay to ask, as well as the people around you. I mean, you mentioned that earlier, as well ask the people around you, "I just need to be me for a minute". And there's a pride thing or something that gets in the way or we feel bad or like, we feel guilty if we ask for help, or like we're not doing it "properly", if we need to ask for help. But you know, going back to the adage, it takes a village. The reason it takes a village is because one person or even two people, it's too hard to raise. I know I all the time, relentlessly on you. It's too much for anyone.

Emily  1:06:32

It is. If you can ask for help. If you've got like I said earlier, I'm fortunate I have grandparents. And I mean my mom from the moment he was born; she was stood right next to me. She was like, even if it's 2am and you just need somebody to make your brew or something you just ring me. And she's been that for the past two years. Like she right now she's with my child somewhere. I don't know where she is, but, I remember when I started getting into work, ringing Matt's mum. So my partner's mom, and saying "look, I just need one night a week to work" and she was like, "right, Tuesdays, Tuesdays, drop him off at five o'clock pick him up when you finished work. I don't care what time it is. You just got to be you". And it's just like, me reaching out and saying "I need help because I can't do it". And it it's just been brave to say that and this business wouldn't be what it is now without me having those Tuesday nights. So it's just it's not feeling guilty. That's the thing, isn't it? It's, it's okay to say "I need some time. I need some time to just be on my own". You don't even need to work as well. If you just want to sit watch Telly for now. It's fine!

art by Keita by Keita  1:07:44

Yeah, like to admit that? No, I'm not Superwoman. Actually. Yeah, not the Superwoman I'm feel like I should be. And I've got other dreams that I'd like to pursue, and I've got other things that I need to do to take care of my mental health, emotional health, physical health, whatever it is that you need. But yeah, that's definitely something with motherhood I found hard, is asking for help. Again, I'm fortunate, though, that I have like my mom has been amazing. And like my sisters, my family was so supportive around my kids. And yeah, I'm just, it's everything really. Just for a bit of Breathing space. Yeah, that's you're truth. So what's your myth/lie?

Emily  1:08:30

Well, again, we've talked about it, but my myth is what I believed and that was, when the moment you have a child, you, that's what you become. like you have to give up everything. And I genuinely believed it. I think Matt believed it. I think we'd all just decided that Emily was gonna just stop work now. I mean, I was 26. So that was only just starting my career. And it's funny, now, I'm two years into it, my child is two. And I'm, I mean, I'm earning more than I ever did in a job, and I'm working less than I ever did. And so I have kind of proved that that is a lie. You know, it doesn't have to stop. You can make your own if you want it to if you want to stop, like we've said, you can do. But there is no reason why your career stops when you have children. It'll be very, very hard. I'm not saying it's easy. It's been really, really hard. But I'm hopeful that I am kind of one of the examples. There's lots out there that you can build something with a small child and kind of make dreams come true. I know it sounds a bit cringe, but I just think you hear so much that women have to stop when they have children and it's just it's one of the messages I want to get out to as many people as possible, is if you've got a dream, you want to build something, it'll be really hard work. But you can do it with a child. And 100% you can do it with children.

art by Keita by Keita  1:10:10

There's one thing that keeps me going as well. And this is kind of for all my children, but in the context that we're talking about with women, I also I want to, I want my daughter, I've got three kids. So my middle is a ginger boy like yours, and then I've got two girls. And I want them to see me trying, I want them to be in this room with me in this little studio that I've carved out space in our home, because it's important to me, I want them to see me being creative. I want them to see me trying and failing and screwing things up and figuring it out and talking it through with them. Because I want them to know that it is possible for them. And if I don't show them that it's possible, then why would they ever believe that they can do that themselves. So that is something that keeps me going as well as like not just for myself. It's like an extra layer that on those days when I'm like I don't I mean, "I don't have to do this", you know, I get that like defeatist thing I like well, I could just, just not I could just not do it. And that that's the thing that always keeps me coming back to it is like now I'm gonna, even though it's hard, even if I have to record a podcast episode and there's TV cartoons, like lightly in the background, I’m doing it anyway. Because otherwise I won't, because I need to make sure that it's you know, it's done, rather than it being like, absolutely perfect. And the children always away from me when I'm doing something. I want them to see, not all of it because I do like creating on my own, the majority of the time. But I do want them to, like witness it.

Emily  1:12:04

Yeah, I mean, that has been, I think like that a lot and moving because I no longer work at home. So when I first started having Luca, you know, playing with his toys next to me. I remember sitting there thinking, Wow, he's gonna grow up thinking like - My mom did it like she she's doing it. And I remember thinking because I grew up when I was young, I was forever with a child minder, and my parents worked very long hours in the bank. And, and I kind of grew up thinking, that's what you did, you worked for somebody else, you came home, and you were miserable. Because my parents were miserable. They fell out, you know, it was rubbish. And, and it wasn't until they separated. And my mom started her own business and started working for herself and got her own office. And I think this is where it's come from is watching her, figure it out, you know, she had to rebuild with two children, and start a business. And I've literally just watched her, you know, she thought she'd have this idea. And she wasn't a case of I just remember watching her just being so like, I admired her so much. And I was just like my mom is, she's making her own decisions she can do as she wants. And I don't think (although I did work for other people in studios and things like that). I always liked the idea of starting my own business, making my own money making my own decisions. And that is because she did it. And I think if my parents would have stayed together, working in their jobs in the bank and being miserable, it's safe to say I don't know if I'd be here because I didn't know it was possible until I saw my mom do it. So yeah, I'm very much the same. I want Luke to see me here. I mean, luckily Lucas dad also has his own business. And, and I love that I love that he can see both of his parents choosing when they want to work on things, they absolutely love like Luca can come and see me drawing characters and loving my job. He gets to see his dad loving his job. We both work really hard. And that yeah, it's really important for me for Luca to grow up seeing that. And I really hope he takes that on for his future work and he knows he can also make that choice as well if he wants to. So, but it is harder for me now that I'm not at home. So I do try and bring him in here a lot. And as he grows up.

Keita  1:14:35

That's the thing. It's just seeing. You know, I think I'm thinking back to my childhood like when my mom was like, you just see that little glint in your mom's eye and you're so sensitive to like, food that your parents are in. I remember with my mom like if she was (my mom basically loves anything to do with interior design). If she was redoing a room, she was lit up like a Christmas tree. So was I, because she was. Yeah. And that side of things, I think, pushed me into a creative thing because I saw how happy she was doing things like that. And yeah, I want my kids to see me happy. And I think that that's that kind of echoes sort of what we're talking about is, you do what makes you happy, and you're working towards your dreams, which is what makes you happy. I can only make you a better mom, I can only make you an inspiring person for your children and a positive person for your children to be around. Rather than thinking, "I've got to do it, you know, somebody else's way and live life their way. Because that's just what you do, even though I'm miserable".

Emily  1:15:43

Yeah. 100% I agree. 100%.

Keita  1:15:47

We've gone on soapbox. I'm gonna wrap it up now. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much for sitting here with me for been on the podcast, and I know that there's gonna be so much goodness, good advice, that I'm excited for them to listen to it. Thank you so much for your time/

Emily  1:16:11

Thanks for having me. You're a star. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. And thank you to Emily, for joining me for this really lovely chat. I hope that you enjoyed it. If you did enjoy it, and you think that one of your friends might like it, or somebody that you know, please feel free to share this episode with your friends, if you think that it might help them. I really, really would love to encourage more art making moms to feel like they can like Emily has, like I'm doing too. And if that's you, I know you can do it too. It's so fulfilling, to be creative, and also to be a mom at the same time. And I think it's important that we know, we don't have to do it all. But if we want to, we can find balance somehow in our own unique ways.

If you did enjoy this episode, too, you can also leave a review which also helps other painty mamas find us. And if you'd like to check out some more of Emily's work. You can find her over on Instagram @eharveyart and I will leave links in the episode to her website www.eharveyart.com. And to her Instagram too. If you would like to find anything else. Art by Keita related, I'm @artbykeita on Instagram. And you can also find me at www.artbykeita.com Thanks again so much for listening, lovely. It is such an honor to be in your ears. And until next time, have an absolutely wonderful, beautiful, magical creative week.