Ep 7 - Growing an Art Business with Monika of Salt and Paper
In this episode Keita is talking with Monkia of Salt and Paper about everything from running an etsy shop, balancing marriage and motherhood, to taking the leap to go full time, and our thoughts about growing an art business.
In This Episode Keita & Monika Discuss:
· How motherhood and marriage tie into Monika’s creative process and business.
· The ins and outs of going full time in your art business.
· The pros and cons of etsy and running your own online shop through your website.
Mentioned in this Episode:
You can find Monika @saltandpaperca on instagram and visit her beautiful shop of inky goodness at www.saltandpaper.ca
Keita 00:05
Hello and welcome to the painty mama podcast! We're taught that artists are poor, throw kids in the mix and it seems impossible to thrive. While balancing motherhood, creative projects and building a business along with everything else is hard I believe the universe gave you your unique talents and children so you could live a full, inspiring creative, beautiful life together. Join me for conversations about creativity, motherhood business and finding calm in the chaos. I’m Keita Thomas and this is the Painty Mama Podcast.
Keita 00:39
Hello lovely! Today I’ve got a real treat for you. I had a great conversation with Monika, who is the stamp making, creative mama behind "salt and paper". Monica creates these really beautiful free hand carved rubber-stamped designs and she specializes in bespoke portraits. I first learned about Monika's work as she's a friend of my sister and it's been amazing to watch her company grow over the past few years, and so lovely to finally sit down and have a good chat with her. We talked about everything from balancing marriage and motherhood, to taking the leap to go full time in salt and paper, and our thoughts about growing an art business and running an etsy shop. So, if you've ever thought about, or if you do, run an art or craft based business, there's some really brilliant nuggets in this episode for you and I really hope you enjoy this conversation.
Keita 01:38
So Monika, welcome to the painty mama podcast! Thank you for being here.
Monika 01:42
Hey! Thanks for inviting me, I feel very honored to be here.
Keita 01:46
I’m so excited to talk to you, and I’m excited for everybody to hear about your art journey and your whole story because your company so, so inspiring what you're doing it really is. Thank you, so why don't you start off by telling us rather than me filling everybody in, why don't you start off by telling us in your own words like who you are what you do a little bit about your story...
Monika 02:12
Okay. My name is Monika Giacca. I live in Toronto; Canada and I went to school for theatre production. I thought that that was going to be my life, I was going to be designing sets and making costumes and making props the rest of my life and then like three years into my program I was like I hate this... so you know what it was it's funny the thing I didn't like about it was that it was so freelance and I was like "no I want to work for like big daddy company and have a salary and benefits and I don't want to be a freelancer" which is funny, that's exactly what I do now. Then I worked for 10 + years in the travel industry as a travel agent, sales, marketing a whole bunch of different things and while I was doing that I started my my first little business which was called "Owl Post Goods" and it grew from there it's now called "Salt and Paper", I can get into that story later but it's been growing throughout the years and 2020 was my opportunity to jump ship from the travel industry which was definitely sinking and luckily I built up over like five years like a good little good little company so I am doing that exclusively now.
Keita 03:33
That's amazing. Do you know my sister's always told us that we have a lot in common I didn't know that you did that did you know that, I did the same thing? Theatre production, like I was a set designer and then it's like the same story!
03:48
It's so funny, your sister's always like "you need to be my sister you guys have a lot in common" I was like "Ok, sure". I didn't know that, so you went to school for that as well?
Keita 03:56
Yeah that's how I met your husband Dave. I was in the year above (just for anybody that's listening) Leala is my sister, and she had a friend in college called Dave, and I was in the year above them but I did technical theater instead.
04:13
wow small world, I can't believe that.
Keita 04:17
Yeah, so funny. So how did you go from.. through the different phases of your business so could you break that down for us like how did you go from the starting and then to where you are now?
04:30
Yeah, so when I first started it, I had an etsy shop before that was very unsuccessful like I sold nothing. So I shut that shop down then I reopened it when I started carving stamps which is, for your listeners, that's what I do. I make rubber stamps of people's faces. It's very niche and I made one for my friend's wedding - Kelly and Evan, and I thought maybe I could maybe you could sell these on etsy so I threw them up there and within like a day or two I got my first sale, which was like, "Oh, hah, maybe I’ve got something going on here". So yeah, I started building it up there and that business for me was always just kind of side cash as a travel agent, you always want to be traveling. So I was like, everything I make in this business will just like go right into my like travel slush fund. And it grew. And it grew and grew until the point where I was like, wow, I can actually maybe just do this, like, I'll be poor, but I could do just this for a little bit. Um, and yeah, it evolved. But I’ve tried different products. I feel like, the thing about starting a business is always experimentation. You don't know what's going to work well. Like something I think is amazing. I'll put up there and like a year later, I look back and I haven't made a single sale on it. So I pull it. So yeah, just trying different things and looking at my competitors, like what are they offering? What are their prices like and building myself up from there.
Keita 05:54
So what is it that you like about doing rubber stamps, as opposed to, Like, I don't know, traditional media? Or what made you... like other than doing that for your friend's wedding, what made you like, move in that direction?
Monika 06:09
I think what I liked about it was that there aren't too many people doing it. So with a less competitive market. And when something that's very customized, like especially wedding products of couples faces, I can charge a decent amount of for it to make it worth my time to do. I’ve tried other mediums that were doing okay, but didn't have as much of a margin. And so just like ultimately didn't seem to be worth my time. But yeah, what I particularly like about it is that I’m good at it and that people like it.
Keita 06:43
Yeah, I’ve also noticed recently you've been doing some more like intricate, you've been playing with prints, right? Yeah, yeah. Really cool. Yeah. That seems like really a unique way to do prints as well.
Monika 06:57
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about like diversifying what I sell in my shop to not just be custom work, I want to have some other things that are just like ready to sell and go out the door, especially if I do some markets this summer. So I thought "I'll make some really complicated carvings. And then I can print those on paper on tea towels and sell them".
Keita 07:16
oooh tea towels - that would be a good one!.
07:17
Yeah, I just ordered 100 tea towels from Vietnam, like handsewn. And they're like beautiful linen and gorgeous and not in a factory. And I’m excited to use them but I’m like way too scared to print on them for the first time. They're just still sitting in the box.
Keita 07:36
I’ve got a few things like that. Like, "I really want to do this, but I am too scared to like, mess it up". And then when you actually do it, then you're like, "why didn't I do this before? It's awesome". And so as we talk, we talk mainly about like balancing motherhood with an art, like having an art practice, whether that's for personal reasons, and like, artistic expression or self expression, and also running a business as well. So how have you found, How has your motherhood altered the way that you've worked throughout the journey of being an artist and being just being a creative person?
Monika 08:23
Um, well, I work like exclusively at night or used to. So I would, you know, work during the day at my day job, and then come back and spend time with my daughter, and then like, obviously, wouldn't be able to work then. And then work the evening side work from like 8pm until midnight. So I became like a real like night owl when it came to working. But as she's gotten older, my daughter is four years old now. And you'd know this, like, as your kids get older, you can kind of like send them off to do things. Like, yeah, I'll go play for a bit. And they'll just like, go and entertain themselves for a bit and I can get some work done elsewhere.
Keita 09:00
Yeah, I see you doing a similar thing to me as well, like in your Instagram stories and stuff where you'll be like, making like creative projects for her to do at the same time.
09:12
Yeah, you're my inspiration for that. I was like, "Oh, you know what if Keita can do that with three kids, I can do that with one".
Keita 09:19
Yeah, I feel like it's a good hack. Because I think sometimes, I don't know, at least I did. I used to have like, this mindset of like, "I can't do it. Like, I can't go and do the things that I want to do. And immerse myself in my artwork", because I felt like I needed to really be focused on it. And only focused on that at the same time as having the kids like right there with me. And I felt guilty for it. But actually, I don't know if you found this with Livvy too. It's like, if I get my paints out and I start painting or I say like, "Okay, I’m going to go in the office. I’m going to stop painting now". Then they'll like want to do that too just, do their own version of it. And it like actually encourages a lot of creativity in them that and it was like a bonus thing. I didn't really expect that to happen.
10:12
Yeah, no, that's absolutely true. Yeah, she's in the last year she's like, really flourished her artistic abilities that she loves sitting down at the like, (I work in my dining table). She loves working at the dining table with me and doing her own drawings and making crafts. She's all about like, inventing crafts. And she, I mean, I’m sure you have the same situation like I have just so much craft material around the house. So whenever she wants like googly eyes, felt, color paper, I got it. She's covered! So she's so she's having a ball, like experimenting with all that stuff and making new things and, and doing that, like co-working with me.
Keita 10:49
Yeah, yeah, I think that's, I think that's lovely.
Monika 10:54
Yeah, it's nice. It'll be a nice memory down the road. Like, yeah, we did that now. Your teenager in your little shit? Oh, sorry. Haha.
Keita 11:05
I’m not gonna edit out haha.
Keita 11:09
It's just life, it's real. And, yeah, I just like I hope that they see as doing this stuff, and then that they, you know, feel free to, follow those paths too. To follow that creativity.
Monika 11:24
Although if she wants to become like an investment banker. And like, pay for my retirement. I’m okay with that, too.
Keita 11:32
Yeah, I feel like my little guy, he's four, same age. And, and he's, he's just all about the math. And I feel like I know how you're my child. But like, I’m into it, because I could do with some book keeping help, you know, down the line sometime haha!
Keita 11:54
So I also want to ask you as well about, I know, you moved from like, going into the, this is kind of recent, I think in 2020, wasn't it? Where you made the leap from going, like working full time, and then going into salt and paper full time? How did that? How did that feel? Was that scary? Or did it just feel like a natural progression?
Monika 12:16
I was so happy to do it. I’ve been wanting to for a while, like, maybe for the last year or so. It's just it's hard to leave a full-time paying job, right? Like, that's hard, especially like when it's, you know, my job was across the street, it was so close, I worked in the neighborhood, being a travel agent is just a really stressful job, though. And I was like, oh, like, I don't know, if I want to do this forever. But it's hard to let go of, you know, a salary and benefits and vacation time and all the perks of that industry. But I didn't really have a choice in this. So I, you know, COVID was the worst. And for us in this industry, it was just a horrible, horrible slog of like, 8 to 10 months from March until November just refunds, people yelling at us, insurance claims, like it was absolute misery. But you know what it was like, "Hey, we gotta get this done. We got to like, finish it off". And as like, all the tasks were winding down. They, they finally came to us in September, and we're like, "we're going to be laying off a huge amount of the company. Do you want to stay? Or do you want to go and get a severance?" And I was like, "do you want to stay like I could stay and keep my job? Or I could try this? This is like the opportunity like, yeah, I’m gonna do this", so I took my severance, and put that in the little counts, like help pay my salary over the next few months. And yeah, and then I mean, it's kind of hard because like December through April, are my slowest months, like my biggest selling months are in the, in the summertime with weddings and Christmas time, but I'll make it through, and then hopefully be able to make enough money in those months to kind of like tide me over for next year as well. So it'll be like, ebbs and flows. We'll see how it goes. Maybe I'll have to pick up a part time job. But for now, everything seems to be working out pretty good.
Keita 14:07
Oh that's so good, it's quite the leap. I guess you were kind of, not forced into it, but it was like a decision that you had to make. Yeah,
Monika 14:17
Yeah, it just felt right for us. And, you know, I get to set my own hours. So I can sleep in until 9am. And start my day at like, 10:30. Once we've had breakfast and take the dog for a walk. It's like leisurely, I enjoy it. And I don't mind working. Like I don't take weekends I work every single day. But I also only work like five or six hours a day. So I think I prefer that.
Keita 14:39
Yeah, it's kind of nice how you can like, flex it around what works for your family. I’ve found that with (because my oldest is seven), So she's in grade one. And we've been homeschooling like for pretty much this whole year. Yeah. It has been a year now. that has been it's been challenging for sure to fit that in but I’ve also surprised myself with what I can actually fit in. Because sometimes when it's like you think you can't make it work, sometimes when you find yourself in those situations where you're like "well I’ve just got to make it work somehow", then it ends up slotting in some way, or we just like find a part of our brain that we didn't know existed to be able to deal with more than more than you think you can.
Monika 15:29
There's so many parents who are dealing with that. Like I feel a little blessed right now that my kid is not yet in school, but seems like everybody's had to like find a way to like reshuffle their lives to make working and schooling from home, work for everybody. Which I don't think I did a year and a half ago anyone would have expected they could do. You did it!
Keita 15:53
Hahah yeah, I’m thinking I might be sending them both to school in September, because it's been hard, I’m not gunna lie. But it's also been a really nice time because we've just had a lot more quality time together and it's been really special to be the person that like teaches a those like basic building block skills like learning to read. Like I taught her how to read, and I feel like that's so cool!
Monika 16:21
That is cool how'd you do that?
Keita 16:23
With lots of help from online curriculums and amazing teachers online but... I’m taking the credit for it - because I did sit down and put the hours in haha!
Monika 16:33
Haha, you did, you did it!
Keita 16:35
And it's been fun as well, it's been fun to, you know learn things about space and planets and I find the certain topics that they have to cover in the curriculum and I wouldn't usually be thinking about those things but yeah we've been having some really interesting chats and then that actually feeds into like "oh maybe I kind of want to sketch something about that" or you know like gives me a few ideas so it's like inspires -like life inspiring your art too.
Monika 17:05
yeah, yeah
Keita 17:08
Oh here's a question, what, I wanted to ask what helps you to maintain like this (sorry I’m not wording this very well!) - you know when you get like an influx of orders say around christmas time or something, and it's like super busy and then you get those dead times, what helps you to like deal with that demand on your time. You know how business goes up and down, how do you juggle that flow with Livvy too? Like being present as a mom, and like how does that work for you?
Monika 17:42
Yeah I do the same thing as well. like if I’ve got print orders I can print those out so quickly, but at the same time, if I’m trying to juggle other life things I don't want to... yes same thing, I give myself like extra time, so that I can always meet the expectations or exceed the expectation rather than disappointing a customer.
Monika 17:42
Umm, you know I haven't really found much difficulty with it because I work in the kitchen area I’m always available to help her if I need to during my busiest months this year, which were September, October, November. There were there were times when I have to you know I’m not gonna lie it's just like stick her in front of the tv and be like "entertain yourself, I have to do this" but for the most part she's... I mean I’m trying to think actually back to maybe when she was a lot smaller and I had big orders in the summertime. I think I would just have to reschedule my day like I just did a lot of it when she was asleep or taking naps and then kind of squeezing things in when she was playing like working a little bit and kind of just doing it that way. The other thing too is I set really good guidelines for how long it'll take me to make each thing because it's so custom I usually save three to five days. I can get it done in 20 minutes but sometimes I’m not ready to do it right now when I get the order, so I’ll do it tomorrow the next day and my clients know that they'll receive their first draft within one to three days. So it could be like within an hour, it could be within three days, whatever works for my schedule. And I set the expectations and I stick to it. And I don't just disappoint people because I’ll lose clients right!
Monika 19:24
Yeah, etsy keeps giving me these little pop ups being like "hey you should like tighten up your processing times people buy more from you" and I’m like "okay well, I don't know if I want to do that etsy, I don't think you understand my process".
Keita 19:36
Hahah "I’m an artiiistt!"
Monika 19:37
This is custom work, it takes time!
Keita 19:41
I guess the nice thing as well with the carving part of it at least, it's one of those things that you can, you can come back to. So you can have it set up (I’m just picturing you in your kitchen having it set up and then like doing a little section and then breaking off and then coming back to it).
Monika 19:58
Totally, It's not like you know it's not like oil paints or something that like dries and you gotta start again. It, Yeah, I can definitely put it aside or, you know, sometimes ask Dave to clear the table and it all just ends up in a jumble on top my printer. I’m like, "oh", but I could just like pick it back up again. It's okay. Yeah, continue it later.
Keita 20:16
How it does umm, yeah, I’m curious, because I don't have much experience with this. But how was it between like you and Dave and juggling that like going full time? And like, how is that because you're both very creative people. Like how does that work with his creative side? Like, do you support each other? Or like, do you how do you trade off with like parenting duties and stuff like that?
Monika 20:44
We just I mean, we talk to each other about what we need in the moment. So a few months ago, Dave was not only working, but he's working with a restaurant. He's obviously not in restaurants right now, because they're all closed. But they've given him like some busy work to do on the computer. So he's working from home. But he was also studying for his Sommelier exam. And he needed all the time. So that's fine, like he needed during the day to work, and then an evening to study. And I understood that that's fine. I will take on those responsibilities of parenting and running my business at the same time. But then we switch off like now that he's done that I’ve told him like, "Look, I can't do this anymore. So when you're working on your computer, you're not making phone calls, like I need you to be in the kitchen with me that way. If Livvy needs anything, she can ask you as well". Instead of like hiding in the bedroom, so it's been nice because he's been more available now that he's done his exams to assist in the day to day like Livvy care. We're pretty good about talking to each other and evening out the distribution of work in the household. And yeah, anything he wants to pursue, I’m there to support him and he's always been very supportive of my career too - even said it was okay for me to go full time in my art business! Which I was so scared to ask him like, "Are you okay with this, we're not gonna have benefits".
Keita 22:06
So nice to have that support for each other and to be able to like, yeah, talk it through and balance that out. What do you see like going forward? Like what, what would you like to see Salt and Paper evolve into if you could just like, magically project far into like, five years from now? Or 10 years from now? Like, what- what's your dreams?
Monika 22:29
Um, I used to want to own my own, like brick and mortar shop, like a little gift store. But then I’ve been recently talking with my friends, one of my friends who does own a store, and she's like, "don't do it". It's a lot of work, right, you have to always be there, unless it's big enough that you can have staff and then you got to like, watch your staff and stuff I dunno. Oh, yeah. So maybe, nice idea. It's, it's umm, it's still my dream, I think I'd like to try it. But I think first what I would like, what I'd like to do is have more product that is manufactured and ready to go that I don't necessarily have to have an active hand in always. So like, I don't want to do this, but like, I’m just gonna say, for example, like a mug, so a mug I can have made somewhere else. And then I can sell it wholesale to a shop and make money off of it that way. So I'd love to have more like passive income resources, more products that don't require active carving work for me, because it is - I love doing it. I love doing custom work. But the actual physical act of carving is very strenuous on my body. It's a lot of like hunched over carving, and I, like every month or so have some sort of back spasm that I have to work through for like three days. So do I want to do that for the rest of my life? I feel like it has maybe a 10 year limit on it. So I need to start working on like, what's the next plan or something paper? Like, what is it going to be? What is it going to evolve and become? I don't know yet. I’m trying a bunch of different things. And we'll see what like sticks - what people like.
Keita 24:00
Yeah, it's always an experimentation game, isn't it? As you said at the beginning of this episode, I never know what's gonna sell sometimes I’m like, "Oh, I think people will love this one", no sales. or I'll be like, "well, I don't even know if I should list this or not". And then it's like, a top seller. And I’m like, I don't understand.
Monika 24:19
"What is it? What's the formula?" I made these beautiful butterfly stamps, a set of three, just different like positions, like one big monarch one, and not a single one sold. And I was like, "What the heck?" This is like, one of my best sellers is a lemon stamp right? And I'll try to make other fruit. I made an apple. No one wanted it. But I don't understand what is it? What did what do people want? What do they want? I don't know!
Keita 24:47
I think I don't know sometimes I just feel like trying Well, when I actually owned a brick and mortar shop. It was like a spiritual metaphysical shop. In Vancouver. So, and then I would like put the odd piece of artwork in there and yeah it's hard, it's hard to have a brick and mortar store for sure, it didn't leave as much time for like making stuff as I thought it would in my head when we started it but yeah I would just try and guess what people wanted and it just never worked. I feel like the more I’ve tried to go "oh maybe they would like this or maybe this is trending" and like I feel like I get further and further away from things that people actually like because there's like I don't know maybe they can feel (i'd like to know what it is) but in my mind it's like they can feel the difference in something that's just like come out of you organically rather than something that you're like planned. That's how I rationalize it anyway because to be honest, as I said, I have no idea like it just seems like there's no rhyme or reason but everybody has their own tastes and it depends who comes across your shop at that time. How have you found the difference between, because you have your website and you also have an etsy shop still is that right? So how are you finding like the difference between those two places?
Monika 26:22
I don't think i'll ever close the etsy store etsy is so valuable I don't understand i'll read some people's blogs and they'll be like "don't open an etsy store they take 5 or 10%" I don't know how much it is "of your profits and" but the thing is, you have to remember, etsy brings in so many people. There's so much traffic seeing your shop that you would not have ever gotten on your own without spending a ton of money. It's definitely worth the listing fees and the percentage to have it on that that site - but it's important, I think to also have your own website as well, because a) if you have your own instagram facebook and social media you want to be driving your traffic to your website right like you're working hard for that you should get to keep higher percentage of that money that you bring in and then secondly, like at any point, Etsy could shut down, Etsy could you know, get sued or you know go bankrupt and disappear, and there goes all of your listings all of your income and you haven't established yourself on a website yet. So having the two of them is good i'd say right now about 80% of my sales are still on etsy and 20% are on my website. And I’m fine with that. That's okay with me because they're the same but they're different for me so I don't mind that they perform differently.
Keita 27:44
Yeah, I think that's pretty similar for me i'd say mine's about 50-50
Monika 27:51
How do you bring traffic to your website?
Keita 27:53
Umm, mainly my email list I would say. Yeah, my email list has been really great. And then just like connecting in different communities with like other artists and then people sharing. Lots of different ways I think you know, a lot of the time when you scroll through as a business owner like if you're scrolling on facebook and you see all the ads and they'll be like "you need to be on pinterest alone" no like "instagram is everything" and like I think that it's annoying, but you have to kind of be a little bit of everywhere but yeah I feel like etsy is one of those places where it's like everything kind of feeds. It's like having little branches of a tree and it all adds up to this tree as a whole, but the more branches I find that I have, the more I don't know, "flourishing" the tree becomes.
Monika 28:45
yeah
Keita 28:46
Yeah so I find with Etsy as well, I’ve had people order and find me on Etsy and then and then I’ve posted their order and I put like a postcard in their order with like some information of like my website and stuff and then they'll follow me on Instagram for a while and then they'll buy something else from our website and then... so it's like all those different places kind of link up together and they work as like a team almost.
Monika 29:16
yeah that's the trick. Lure them over from Etsy and bring them to your store.
Keita 29:24
Yeah but I also have had people, and I do understand this as well, like a lot of people are more comfortable buying through etsy because they're familiar with the checkout process platform. It gives them like some kind of feeling of security about going through etsy as a company rather than you know if they've never met me before and then they order on my website they just feel more comfortable going that way.
Monika 29:49
Yeah I’ve noticed that too, like I’ve spoken to people that are Toronto based or something on etsy, I’m not trying to like take the business away from etsy or anything but I’ve been like "oh well you know actually I have it listed a little differently on my website if you want to go there?" And I’ve had people be like, "Um, no, I’m like, more comfortable on Etsy, could you like make a custom listing on here". I’m like "Okay, fine. Yes. It's funny how that works".
Keita 30:10
Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, cuz I often hear a lot of people say the same thing about "Etsy doesn't work". And to be honest, I opened my, like, I kind of morphed my shop, which was maybe not the best idea. I have, like a pretty dormant shop for ages, because I had like, two listings on there for like, three years, maybe four years, actually. And then it just never did anything. I don't know why I, I just put zero effort into it. And I was like, "Oh, I’m gonna, I’m gonna actually try this. For reals now". And then it did take, I'd say probably a year before it, like started picking up any traction at all. But then it seems to build I don't know, if you found that as well. Like the more if I send out an order. And the quicker I send out that order as well, (I don't know if you've noticed this, I don't know if this is a thing). If I send out an order quickly, and then I click the, do the notification, send them a message to say that it sent, then I'll often get another one almost immediately afterwards. So like, it seems to recognize that.
Monika 31:19
I did hear somewhere. (And I don't know if this is true or not). But I did hear somewhere that if you start to have orders piling up, and they're overdue, then Etsy starts to constrict the traffic to your website, because they're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, they can't fulfill their orders on time". Now, I don't know if that's true or not, because ultimately, people can still find you if they want to or not. But yeah, you might not show up in like the search as high or something. If you're not fulfilling your orders. So it is important to do that. So that they keep coming. Yeah, I have found that it went like when I’m super super busy. And I’m backlogged like all of a sudden it'll like slowdown, which maybe I need!
Keita 31:57
Maybe it is helping you out. Yeah.
Keita 31:59
Do you have one truth, one myth? And one like tip piece of advice that you'd like to give to the artmaking Mummies that are listening to us.
Monika 32:09
Okay, so truth is gonna sound so cliché, but it is true. "It costs money to make money, especially as an artist", so you're starting out? Don't, I mean, okay. If you're starting out, don't spend all your money all at once, I’ve been helping and mentoring a few people who've been starting their businesses. And I’ve noticed that a lot of them are like, "I gotta get the business cards, I gotta get all the packaging stuff, I gotta get all the supplies, I got make sure everything's perfect". Like, girl, slow down, make the product first. See if it sells, send it in the yellow envelope. You don't need to have all the custom branding to start, okay, like, it's not that that stuff is not important. It is it is important to let people know where they can find you. Right? You don't need to have a fully established Instagram, like all these things, just build it up slowly and start bringing in money. Don't worry, at least my opinion would be Don't, don't feel like you have to like put everything in there just to get rolling. That said, if you are starting and you want to like massively expand. You do need to put down a lot of money. So you know, you want to buy new products, you want to buy new materials and stuff, that that can cost a lot of money and it may be a while until you see that money come back to you. So yeah, just keeping a good amount of savings for your business so that you can do some like research and development. That would be my truth.
Keita 33:34
That is really good advice. That is a really good truth.
Monika 33:37
Oh, thank you.
Keita 33:39
Thank you for the wisdom. What would be a Myth? Have you got one?
Monika 33:45
Yeah, I got one. My myth,, um, was actually a little bit more stamp-based. We didn't really talk too much about that but Hey, I’m gonna dive into it anyway.
Keita 33:53
Yeah, go for it!
Monika 33:55
All right. I have to tell people this all the time. So I make stamps that are like three or four inches like logo stamps. And people are like, "where do I get a five inch ink pad?" Girl, you do not need a five inch ink pad. You can use a small ink pad and just like dab it on. So people don't know that. But yeah, bigger stamps. You just put them face up on the table and you dab down a couple times and you get full coverage. That's my myth.
Keita 34:20
Well, it's good. That's good. Also, yeah, we haven't talked as much about like, seriously guys though, you have to check out Monika's stumps. The designs that she has are amazing. And she does these like really thoughtful, beautiful designs. And even if you do need like the branding stamps and stuff, you've got some really cute like, I know I really want to get one from you. But I’m worried that the ink won't stick to my envelopes.
Monika 34:50
What kind of envelopes do you have?
Keita 34:51
I’ve got like the shiny white ones?
Monika 34:54
Okay, so I have something for that. I have this Japanese ink. It's, it's really expensive. It is like $18 if you buy it at Michaels, but I found a wholesaler in Vancouver, and they're selling to me at like a fraction of the price. So I’m giving it back to my people basically for the cost of like the shipping to send it. And so that ink is a solvent based as opposed to like a water or oil based ink, which is probably what you've used more often. solvent is alcohol based. So once you stamp it, it dries almost immediately, on a shine or anything, it may just take like 30 seconds, and then it's dry. So it's pretty cool. It's like good for inking on plastic or on glass. Those sorts of things. So there are our options!
Keita 35:45
I think I might be doing that because I just like that it's a bit more green. Or in my mind. It's more green than buying the stickers.
Monika 35:53
Oh, yeah, totally. Stickers are great. But stickers are like expensive, right? Especially like, I mean, you have a sticker printer. So you know, you can, you can make whatever sticker one at a time. But for anyone who doesn't have one of those, it is expensive. So a stamp while it might be an upfront cost, in the long run will last you years and years.
Keita 36:17
Yeah. I’m such a fan. I mean, I feel I’m just saying that way too much. I think what you're doing is it's so unique. I’ve not seen anybody do what you're doing. And the way that you do it, as well, the likes the kind of products that you're making. It's really, it's really unique. And I’m excited to see like what, you know, like what comes out next,
Monika 36:41
Oh thank you. I think I am the only person who does hand carved portraits by hand. But there is I have like a Nemesis in France. She does a very similar product to me. It's not hand carved. But I like to think that she's my enemy. I she's not I’m sure haha, but I always - it's nice to have like a goal. Like I’m gonna beat them one day!
Keita 37:05
Healthy competition.
Monika 37:07
Yeah exactly. She doesn't know who I am or whatever, maybe she does. Um, you wanted a final tip as well, right? So that would be, we kind of we already touched on this twice, but experimenting until you find your niche and bestseller. So just keep trying to make new things. Make what your heart wants to make, like you're talking about, like your soul art is probably going to sell better than what like your market research is. But I don't know, maybe try a bit of both. Then the nice thing if you're starting out and you don't want to like buy a whole website, get an Etsy, throw them up, it costs 20 cents, and try a bunch of different things and see what search keywords are bringing people in and start to build stuff around that. And the nice thing about art is you make it with your own hands so you can make one prototype, show the world and if they like it - you make more.
Keita 38:02
Such good advice. I like it a lot. Thank you so much. Where can we all find you on the internet?
Monika 38:12
I am on Instagram @SaltAndPaperCa or at www.saltandpaper.ca. That's my website.
Keita 38:23
Well, thank you so much. What a lovely chat. It was so nice to talk to you. And talk about business and your journey. Thanks for all the wisdom.
Keita 38:35
Thanks so much for listening to Monika and I today. It was such a pleasure to chat with her. And I hope that you gain some inspiration and some insight from our conversation today. And I know I certainly did. I'll leave links in the show notes so that you can check out Monika's beautiful work if you'd like to. And please share this episode with your creative friends if you think that they would find it useful. And don't forget to subscribe if you found it useful. I’ve got so many ideas for upcoming episodes talking about creativity, art, making, motherhood and how we as art making moms can successfully blend all those aspects of our lives together. So you need to subscribe to be notified for that. And thanks again, so much for being here for like me in your ears, and Monika and your ears. I’m just so grateful for this podcast. It's really been a beautiful experience so far and I’m excited for more. Until next time, keep believing and persevering to make your dreams a reality.
Thanks so much for spending time here with me today and feel free to message me on Instagram to let me know what great ideas have come to you while you've been daydreaming. You can DM me @artbykeita if you enjoyed this podcast, please don't forget to subscribe for more episodes and leave a review as it really helps other Painty Mama's like you to find us. And you can find all things Art By Keita, including the "Banba" goddess painting mentioned in this episode, at keitathomas.com. Until next time, have a dreamy week!
